How To Get More Sales Using The Socratic Method

Brian: [00:00:00] Welcome back to another episode of the six figure home studio podcast. As you heard in the intro, I am your host Brian Hood, and I'm here with my bald, beautiful gray shirted sweatshirt cohost.

[00:00:28] Chris: [00:00:28] There's a purple shirt underneath. It's a sweatshirt still on. I'm on brand.

[00:00:32] Brian: [00:00:32] You know what actually had the purple shirt on today. I have a file pass shirt on today. It was my cohost Christopher J. Grant, how you doing today, my friend.

[00:00:39] Chris: [00:00:39] I'm great. Brian, how are you? I'm not gonna say anything else until you tell me how you are

[00:00:44] Brian: [00:00:44] I'm good because, uh, we leave for winter Nam, which it actually happened last week as of the time this episode airs, but we leave in about a week. A week from today actually, we will be at Nam. Ooh.

[00:00:56] Chris: [00:00:56] By the time this episode comes out and you're listening to it, we're going to have a lot more friends. It's going to be really fun.

[00:01:03] Brian: [00:01:03] If you don't go to Nam every year, you are missing out on some of the best hangs of like any event, and I've been to a lot of conferences in the world, but something about Nam winter Nam, not summer summer's trash. Even though it's like two blocks from where I live.  there's a magic to it. It is probably because it's a Stone's throw from Disney world or does it Disneyland.

[00:01:23] I don't remember that.

[00:01:23] Chris: [00:01:23] Disney land, I believe.

[00:01:26] Brian: [00:01:26] All right. It doesn't matter what are the Disney's, that's why it's so magical. All the magic WAFs over from Disneyland over to Nam,

[00:01:32] Chris: [00:01:32] There's a lot of wafting. I remember

[00:01:33] Brian: [00:01:33] there's a lot of wafting

[00:01:35] Chris: [00:01:35] there was so much wafting, there was like no one smoked cigarettes here, but they're smoking.

[00:01:41] Brian: [00:01:41] they're smoking something. So how are you doing my friend? Now that I answered your question.

[00:01:46] Chris: [00:01:46] I'm so good and so pumped about Nam. I am freaking ecstatically excited to get an a on a jet plane. And go hang out with you, man. It's going to be great.

[00:01:57] Brian: [00:01:57] Well, I like to take this moment to, to shout out our sponsor LaCroix.

[00:02:03] Chris: [00:02:03] Oh, I've only got off-brand, bubbly, sparkling water.

[00:02:08] Brian: [00:02:08] that's awful.

[00:02:09] Chris: [00:02:09] Is this trader Joe's?

[00:02:11] Brian: [00:02:11] No, that's the Publix brand. No target. That's target. I think

[00:02:14] Chris: [00:02:14] it's targeted brand. It is not as

[00:02:16] Brian: [00:02:16] we're not actually sponsored by any of these people.

[00:02:19] Chris: [00:02:19] Unless they gave us some stock in their company. I don't think we would ever be.

[00:02:23] Brian: [00:02:23] Yeah, I do want to shout out the shirt that I'm wearing right now. File pass.com I just got the shirts in for Nam so I can wear it. Hopefully you saw me at Nam with this. If you went there, just as a follow pass at the front it says file sharing for recording studios on the front, but on the back it says death to Dropbox.

[00:02:38] We transfer and Google.

[00:02:41] Chris: [00:02:41] I love it. I'm super pumped. We're going to be the, we're going to be purple shirted so if you see someone wearing purple, if you saw some of them wearing purple at Nam, it was us.

[00:02:49] Brian: [00:02:49] There's not many people wearing purple, to be honest. It was just Chris and I.

[00:02:53] Chris: [00:02:53] Yeah. It's as if that had something to do with my decision too. Make purple shirts part of my personal brand.

[00:02:59] Brian: [00:02:59] They're easy to spot in a crowd unless you're wearing that stupid gray sweatshirt overhead. I actually also have purple shirted or purple hoodies, which you make. You can have one of them maybe.

[00:03:07] Chris: [00:03:07] Oh, I'm down. I could definitely use more hoodies.

[00:03:09] Brian: [00:03:09] Yup. It's purple.

[00:03:10] Chris: [00:03:10] I have trouble with hoodies because I love them and this is going to be so weird. You know what? My favorite, one of my favorite things in the entire world is French Terry hoodies, and I'm a big fan.

[00:03:19] Brian: [00:03:19] even,

[00:03:19] Chris: [00:03:19] French. Terry is like, it's like a towel on the inside.

[00:03:23] Brian: [00:03:23] sounds like an aunt's name. Oh, French. Terry.

[00:03:26] Chris: [00:03:26] Oh, French Terry? Yeah. As opposed to Canadian. Terry.

[00:03:30]

[00:03:30] Well, that's French Canadian, Terri.

[00:03:33] Brian: [00:03:33] What is this? This is a brand

[00:03:34] Chris: [00:03:34] No, it's a type of fabric. So this is the stupidest bander we've ever had. But  turn my shirt inside out so you can see it. But it's like a really nice towel on the inside, so it's kind of like knit. Yeah, it's Terry cloth, so they're super warm and I wear them all winter long.

[00:03:50] I can't find a purple fringe Terry sweatshirt. I've tried.

[00:03:54] Brian: [00:03:54] the most worthless banter we've ever had on this podcast.

[00:03:57] Chris: [00:03:57] know.

[00:03:58] Brian: [00:03:58] It may get cut.

[00:04:00] Chris: [00:04:00] If you unsubscribed, we don't blame you.

[00:04:03] Brian: [00:04:03] Yeah, it's true. Somehow our podcast still grows month to month. We've had like three of our best months in a row, even with the fact that we release two replay episodes in December over the holidays. That was still our best month ever, as was the month before that, and the month before that. So we are still growing here at the six figure home studio podcast.

[00:04:20] So we think any of our new listeners who just started listening to us. Give us a shout out. Go to join our Facebook community@thesixfigurehomestudio.com slash community posts in there. We will always see those posts or send us the email podcast@thesixfigurehomestudio.com that comes to both Chris and I's phones.

[00:04:34] You can always reach out to us that way.

[00:04:36] Chris: [00:04:36] Instagram also is a great place to at least reach out to me. Chris underscore Graham.

[00:04:40] Brian: [00:04:40] Yeah, I mean, you can try to reach out to me. I'm really bad. I have all my notifications turned off on Instagram, and if you're not following me or I'm not following you, I think it just goes to my message request folder, which I check even more rarely, so.

[00:04:53]

[00:04:53] You know, Facebook community is probably the best place to keep in touch with or email.

[00:04:59] So do you want to talk about what we're going to be talking about today, Mr. Christopher J. Graham. I'll have James cut out all the dead silence there and like waiting around for you. But there was like a pause of like 15 seconds of like me trying to figure out what Chris was doing just there. He was preparing puns for

[00:05:14] Chris: [00:05:14] Hey

[00:05:15] Brian: [00:05:15] which I just shot him down.

[00:05:18] Chris: [00:05:18] I get more positive feedback on the puns. Than almost anything else in the podcast. So I'm like audio dad, I guess now, and I've started to write some of them down so that I can surprise you with them because your,

[00:05:33]

[00:05:33] you're like a deer in the headlights when I share upon sometimes where you're

[00:05:37] Brian: [00:05:37] No, no. It's like a, what is. I don't know what it's like. It's like this hatred bubbling inside of me. It's not a deer in the headlights because deer in the headlights doesn't have any hatred in, and it's hard. It's just like, woo. When you do it to me, I'm like, everything

[00:05:55]

[00:05:55] Yeah. So yeah, that's, that's where I'm at right now.

[00:05:56] So, Chris, what are we actually going to talk about today that isn't related to puns? It's not banter. It's something that's actually going to help our audience achieve something in their businesses.

[00:06:08] Chris: [00:06:08] Well, I'm sure the episode title is going to clue you guys into this and we'll do a better job than I'm getting ready to do. We typically decide titles after we recorded an episode.

[00:06:16] Brian: [00:06:16] It's literally the last step in the entire process is coming up with a title.

[00:06:19] Chris: [00:06:19] Absolutely it is. And you are are episode title czar. You're very good at it.

[00:06:24] Brian: [00:06:24] Thank you.

[00:06:25] Chris: [00:06:25] Okay. So there's a famous saying in the business world, and it is this sales solve all

[00:06:33] Brian: [00:06:33] mean it solves all problems right?

[00:06:35] Chris: [00:06:35] yeah, solves all problems. So whatever your business problems are, it's not entirely true, but it's sorta true.

[00:06:41] Brian: [00:06:41] The thought is if you have enough sales, you can hire the problem away. You can get a coach or a consultant to solve the problem. You can invest in software or some other solution to solve the problem. So in essence, it's kind of true because if you have enough money due to the sales in your business, sell, solve most problems is, I would say that.

[00:07:01] Chris: [00:07:01] Yeah, 99% super interesting. So we're going to talk about sales today, but specifically. We're going to talk about how to make more sales with questions with the Socratic method. The Socratic method, we're going to talk about it at length here is using questions rather than statements, and it's incredibly effective.

[00:07:19] It kind of comes in and out of Vogue and right now I'm just like on a huge Socratic kick. It has helped me as a husband. This helped me as a father. It has definitely helped me as a business coach.

[00:07:33] Brian: [00:07:33] This is what I've heard you actually talk about . This is where I've heard you talk about Socratic questioning the most is in your coaching stuff.

[00:07:40] Chris: [00:07:40] Hold on. Hold on, hold on. I need to, I need to say something here. James, you need to leave in Brian saints aquatic.

[00:07:47]

[00:07:47] Okay. That, that needs to make it to air.

[00:07:53] Brian: [00:07:53] So like a five year old, it's aquatic method. Uh.

[00:07:56] Chris: [00:07:56] What is this aquatic method.

[00:07:59] Brian: [00:07:59] So again, whenever you start taking on coaching clients, it forced you to become a better coach and honestly, being a good coach or being a good teacher,  knowing the right questions to ask the gets someone to the conclusion themselves. That's honestly being a good coach.

[00:08:11] Chris: [00:08:11] Yeah, 100%

[00:08:12] Brian: [00:08:12] What's crazy is how much this can be used in sales as well.

[00:08:16] Chris: [00:08:16] totally. So man, I'll tell you what. Well, as I look back at 2019 and I look at what grew me, what helped me become a better man. I'm so surprised to say this, but a lot of it was the business coaching thing I've been doing. So I am going to try to do a lot more coaching in 2020 so if you're interested in that, go to Chris grand, mastering.com/coaching

[00:08:35] Brian: [00:08:35] There's a link to that in our show notes there. Don't forget the two M's and Chris Graham mastering.

[00:08:41] Chris: [00:08:41] What I've really learned, I've done a bunch of coaching sessions since I started doing this last year, and what I found. Was the better. My questions were, the better the coaching went, the more light bulbs went off, the more realizations were had, the more growth was had an and so I do my best to ask great questions, and to be honest, the only thing I look for in a great business coach, coach,

[00:09:07] Brian: [00:09:07] We're not editing this crap out today.

[00:09:09] Chris: [00:09:09] Oh my gosh, okay.

[00:09:10] So what I look for in a great business coach is one, two, they're qualified, and two, that they ask really good questions. So we're going to talk about that. You can use the snot out of the Socratic method when you are trying to close more clients, when you're trying to get more business. And we're going to talk about what that is.

[00:09:28] So Brian mentioned before the Socratic method was invented by Socrates, and the general idea is that if you tell someone something, you state a fact, there's a pretty good chance they're going to get defensive. That they're not going to like you, that they're going to be offended that they're going to be, you know, fill in the blank.

[00:09:45] If you ask a question, especially if it's a genuine, honest question, there's a much better chance that you're going to have a good dialogue with them. It's a more humble way to communicate with people. So we're going to talk about the Socratic method. In my opinion. There's kind of three points that we need to hit before we get into the how to make more sales using the Socratic method.

[00:10:06] Ooh, there's an episode title, how to make more sales using the Socratic method. So there's two types of questions that you can have when you're talking to either a potential client, current client, past client, whatever, daughter, son, wife, husband, all these things. There are leading questions and there are discovery questions, a leading question.

[00:10:26] I'll give you an example of that. So I use the Socratic method as a father all the time, especially with my youngest. She's four years old. She is the cutest thing in the entire world. She's a blast,

[00:10:36] Brian: [00:10:36] She's adorable.

[00:10:36] Chris: [00:10:36] durable. She has a crush on Brian. It's disturbing.

[00:10:40]

[00:10:40] I bet it's probably sizzled out a little bit. She's a little bit less in love with you now that you're married.

[00:10:45] Thank God. Just not an adult or in her heart.

[00:10:47] Brian: [00:10:47] for the best I'm taking.

[00:10:49] Chris: [00:10:49] So one of the things, you know, she's four, so you know, she'll have breakdowns and get emotional. And the other day she just got super worked up about something silly, like she had dropped, you can, I don't even know what it was that she might've, I dropped a piece of hot dog on the ground or something.

[00:11:06] She's crying, she's freaking out. And I said, Hey Nora, is it okay if I ever turned crying? Now. And she thought about it for a minute and like visualize like, okay, so what he's proposing is I will stop crying and he will start crying. I'm making a fool of myself. I will stop crying. And she stopped like on the spot.

[00:11:23] And so a lot of times when I am doing dad's stuff with her, I'll ask her questions like, you know, a great question as a dad. So let's say a Nora smacked my middle child over the back of the head with a stuffed animal. Which would not be a terribly rare occurrence in our house. I could say don't smack Jeremiah over the head with a stuffed animal.

[00:11:45] Brian: [00:11:45] Which is what 99% of parents would say or do in that situation. Don't do that.

[00:11:50] Chris: [00:11:50] Another way you could approach is to say a Nora. How would you like it if Jeremiah smacked you over the head with a stuffed animal or if you want to get really creepy, nor is it okay if Jeremiah hits you over the back of the head with this stuffed animal now, and she says, say no. Oh. Oh, okay.

[00:12:07] Brian: [00:12:07] All this. So basically say. Leading questions are when you're asking someone a question to lead them to the answer themselves, instead of telling them the answer themselves, because if they've been led to the answer, they're much more likely to take it to heart and actually take action and change the way they're doing something or make steps towards the thing you're trying to lead them to instead of.

[00:12:29] What most people do when they're told to do something is I'm not doing that. Especially cause you said to do it. I'm a little rebel and that in my heart, that's how I am. So the only way to get me somewhere is the Socratic method.

[00:12:39] Chris: [00:12:39] Right? And it's super effective. If you overuse it or the questions are, you know, overly leading or overly pandering or you know, condescending, it's not going to go well. You definitely don't want to do that. But I think one of the most interesting parts of the Socratic method is the second type of question that you're going to ask is called a discovery question.

[00:13:00] At least this is what I call it. A discovery question is you literally don't know what they think about something. And you want to figure out where their head is at so that you can then ask more questions. So if you're a parent, one of the most fun games you can possibly play with your kids. And again, I'm sorry, I'm using dad illustrations here.

[00:13:19] Brian: [00:13:19] You're such a lame dad with your games and your parenting and your puns.

[00:13:27] Chris: [00:13:27] Ah, that's true. But one of the things you can do with a discovery question is play a game called, would you rather. Would you rather is a super fun game and it's also fun to play with clients as you are trying to get a better vibe on who the client is, who they want to be, and what working with them would be like.

[00:13:43] Would you rather most people know the game  you say two ridiculous things like Brian, would you rather have 10 Grammys or unlimited trips on space X rockets?

[00:13:55] Brian: [00:13:55] Space X rockets, hands down. Not

[00:13:57] Chris: [00:13:57] Same. That would be it. Awesome. I feel like if you had Grammy's, but then you went on a space X rocket and you've got into space and looked down and you'd be like, Oh

[00:14:06] Brian: [00:14:06] When you see the world the size of a marble, it's like, okay, this isn't that important. Grammys are not that big a deal.

[00:14:13] Chris: [00:14:13] yeah, so like, would you rather, as a fascinating game of like Brian, would you rather have unlimited pizza or own a coffee plantation with perfect beans that are shipped right to your door? The exact type of coffee beans you want unlimited pizza. Of gourmet quality in any amount, any place on earth or unlimited gourmet coffee.

[00:14:35] Brian: [00:14:35] These are just softball, easy questions, man. It's going to be coffee 100% of the time every time.

[00:14:39] Chris: [00:14:39] Okay. Okay. Let's keep playing this game cause I want to see if I can get the crazy question about you. Would you rather be the drummer for your favorite band one time at your favorite venue and you kill it or.

[00:14:57]

[00:14:57] All right. Awesome. You guys can see this at Brian. Just like . He's shaking his head no like

[00:15:02] Brian: [00:15:02] This is 0% chance. I'll choose

[00:15:03] Chris: [00:15:03] No way.

[00:15:04] You're hard to play this game with man, and my kids are much.

[00:15:07] Brian: [00:15:07] cause I'm 33 your kids are four.

[00:15:10] Chris: [00:15:10] Okay, let me get whimsical with you. Brian. Would you rather own  unbelievable, amazing tree house or an unbelievable, amazing Abbott house.

[00:15:22] Brian: [00:15:22] Oh God. It's going to be the, Oh, that's a tough one.

[00:15:28]

[00:15:28] I see so many Airbnb potentials for both of them. But the tree house, I know his.

[00:15:33]

[00:15:33] Yeah. Yeah, yeah. The tree house. I've seen the business model work on Airbnb at Hobbit house. There might be fire hazards for lack of windows. There's all sorts of things that I could see going wrong with that.

[00:15:43] So maybe the roof collapsing in. I'm going to go with a tree house

[00:15:46] Chris: [00:15:46] The upkeep costs would be a lot more expensive and that could cut into profitability with the Hobbit house and that could get you in the hole.

[00:15:52] Brian: [00:15:52] moving on.

[00:15:56] Chris: [00:15:56] I promise. I did not. I did not have that one saved up and did not. It's good cause if you had said Treehouse, I would've had to ask other questions and gone out on a limb. Yeah.

[00:16:06] Brian: [00:16:06] That sound right there was the sound of our audience evaporating.

[00:16:10] Chris: [00:16:10] Probably for some reason we keep getting downloads even though I make these jokes.

[00:16:14] Brian: [00:16:14] All right, so let's actually get into some meat here. We've talked about leading questions. We're now talking about discovery questions. How do discovery questions. Get us closer to sales, man. Honestly, how does the, would you rather think play into this too?

[00:16:26] Chris: [00:16:26] So the would you rather thing is interesting because if you play, would you rather with any human being, and honestly if you're like dating or engaged or married, like you're in a relationship with another human being play, would you rather with them, it will blow your mind. They will answer in ways you did not expect.

[00:16:43] And it's when they answer in ways that you don't expect, that you start to improvise questions and follow up. And I think this is where the Socratic method is at its best when you learn something new and interesting about a person, and then you start to improvise new questions and go down that road further.

[00:17:02] You know, uh, before the show is, we were planning this out, Brian and I were talking about when we went on his bachelor trip to Yosemite and we tried to climb a mountain. And we got up to our armpits and snow.

[00:17:13] Brian: [00:17:13] Yeah. It was crazy. Cause this was February, I think January or February and Yosemite after one of the biggest snow falls I've had like 50 years.

[00:17:20] Chris: [00:17:20] It was awesome.

[00:17:21] Brian: [00:17:21] it was incredible, but it was also quite a challenge to hike in that.

[00:17:26] Chris: [00:17:26] Speaking of asking questions and learning things, I learned that your wife, it doesn't, no. The whole story about Yosemite, you want to share that with your audience and your wife at the same time here.

[00:17:37] Brian: [00:17:37] Yeah, sure. My wife's not gonna hear this episode, most likely. I don't know how much she listens to the show anymore, but she still listens. Occasionally. She might hear this or she might be outside the door right now, listening on the hike. We were climbing the side of a. The mountain basically on the trail inside the Valley, and we were following a trail that was kind of beaten down snow, so we could actually fit between the snow, I guess you'd say.

[00:17:57] It's like we were walking into this little like indented path of snow.

[00:18:01] Chris: [00:18:01] Yeah. It was like a Valley.

[00:18:02] Brian: [00:18:02] Yeah, like a little Valley of snow up this mountain side, but the switchbacks and stuff, and we're probably, we'll just say a thousand feet up. I don't know how many feet up we were, but.

[00:18:10] Chris: [00:18:10] I think we were like 2000 feet up maybe.

[00:18:13] Brian: [00:18:13] I don't know how tall that whole mountain is there that we were climbing, but it was if you fall, you're going to die. That's the bottom line

[00:18:20] Chris: [00:18:20] For sure.

[00:18:20] Brian: [00:18:20] And we get to the top and we've actually hit a point where the paths stop. This is where like since it hits known, no one else had gone past this point, but we knew the trail kept going cause it was like a 12 mile trail we were hoping to do.

[00:18:32] So we pushed forward. And what we decided to do was to just just forge our own path on this, like where we knew the trail would be based on Google maps and where you can kind of see like between the trees, this is where the trail would have been if this weren't covered with six feet of snow. And so we're up to our elbows in snow, trudging through trading turns in the front of this, and I get to the front of the pack to lead my turn and we get to this part where the tree had fallen over in the path.

[00:18:55] So we're trying to go around this tree on this path, hundreds or thousands of feet in the air.

[00:19:00] Chris: [00:19:00] And let's point out you couldn't see the path cause there's six feet of snow. You guys were

[00:19:04] Brian: [00:19:04] That was

[00:19:04] Chris: [00:19:04] making educated guesses about where the path

[00:19:07] Brian: [00:19:07] So we're trying to go around this tree, but it's very narrow. You're trying to go around this tree. You don't know where the cliff ends, and it's just snow hanging out over the edge of the cliff. So I'm kind of slowly making my way around this tree. I'm holding onto a limb and I get to this point where my foot slips off the edge and hits nothing.

[00:19:24] I start falling. The only thing keeping me from falling off the edge of this cliff was my left foot still on the rock, and it's basically, I'm like squatted down with Nita chest with my left foot. My right foot is hanging off over the edge of the cliff, touching nothing but snow. And I'm 99% sure that if my left foot would have fallen off, I would have died.

[00:19:45] I would would've been swept away in an avalanche of snow off the side of this mountain, never to be seen again, and that wouldn't have been very good. A month before my wedding.

[00:19:53] Chris: [00:19:53] So the reason I bring this up is when you're asking questions, it's fresh snow. You're walking up the mountain trying to get a feel for somebody trying to learn about them.  you have no idea where you're going. When you see a path, you're asking questions and you're in discovery mode, and when all of a sudden it's like, Oh wow, they're really into this thing, or they're really obsessed with this movie, or why they're really obsessed with this band.

[00:20:15] It would behoove you to keep going in that direction and to ask questions related something that they're passionate and familiar about and it's there that I feel like you're going to get to know them the best because. If you go back to our episode on negotiation, what episode number was that, Brian?

[00:20:32] Brian: [00:20:32] That was episode 30 where we talked about 11 highly effective negotiation tactics any audio professional can use. I was back in June of 2018 so that was quite a ways back.

[00:20:41] Chris: [00:20:41] Quite a ways back. One of our more popular episodes. I feel like I get a lot more feedback on that, but definitely one of our least prepared episodes we've ever done. Which is surprising. But anyways, if you go back to that episode, what you're going to learn is that the point of negotiation is first and foremost, to figure out how to get the other party a win.

[00:21:00] You want to figure out how to get your client a win or the person that you think you're negotiating with. It's like your competitor, they're not your competitor, they're your ally, and you want to figure out how to create a win for them, and then you can figure out how to create a win for yourself. So you're creating win-win scenarios, the way you figured out how to create a win win for somebody.

[00:21:19] Is you do a whole lot of questions. You've got to get to know them and you got to ask them, you know, would you rather tree house, Hobbit house, you know, that sort of thing. You start to figure out like, you know, would you rather huge single, you know, you record a song. The single is a smash success. You're a one hit wonder or your record never gets airplay.

[00:21:38] But as a cult following, you know, this is an interesting question. When you start to get a feel for an artist and what would be at the biggest possible win for them. And I think when you're doing this, you just have an opportunity to figure out how to do more wins. I wish I could explain this better.

[00:21:52] Brian: [00:21:52] I think this is the big takeaway when it comes to Socratic Socrata. This aquatic can

[00:21:57] Chris: [00:21:57] The aquatic method

[00:21:58] Brian: [00:21:58] aquatic method,

[00:22:00] Chris: [00:22:00] fluffer and fuck Attash Brian, it's the aquatic method.

[00:22:02] Brian: [00:22:02] It's going to lead you to figure out the most important thing when you're working with a potential client. And that is what are their aspirations with this music? Because that is the most important thing to figure out because if you do not know the goals and aspirations they have, everything you do and everything you say and everything during the sales process and even in the recording or mixing or whatever service you're offering, everything you do.

[00:22:27] Is it an assumption. And you may very well assume the wrong thing if you don't understand the actual aspiration behind what it is that they're trying to achieve with that music.

[00:22:36] Chris: [00:22:36] Absolutely. So here's the thing. Here's the silver bullet. This is what everybody wants, right? It's like, give me one secret that's going to help me grow my business. Give me one secret that's going to help me. Close more sales. Well, here it is. The secret to closing more sales is to ask yourself this silver bullet question, and it is this, what is the best question I can ask this potential client?

[00:23:00]

[00:23:00] That's the silver bullet. What's the best question you can ask? If you can figure that out, your chances of a successful partnership with them go through the roof, right?

[00:23:11]

[00:23:11] Because in order for you to hit it out of the park. You have to give them a gigantic win. It has to be something that their entire being, every part of them.

[00:23:22] I was like, yes, yes, yes. This is awesome. This is awesome. This is awesome. You just got to ask the right questions. That's it. And then you can figure it out. Cause guess what? You are in the music industry. Probably if you're listening to this podcast, you are by your very nature music person. Which is part of the family of creatives.

[00:23:38] You are a creative and it's, this is a creative exercise. As creatives, we have such an advantage when it comes to the Socratic method because the Socratic method is about creativity. It's about being creative enough to ask interesting, compelling questions that reveal who somebody really, really is.

[00:23:55] Brian: [00:23:55] I agree. So I think we should actually get into specific questions here, Chris, let's list off some potential good questions to ask your clients to help you close sales.

[00:24:04] Chris: [00:24:04] Awesome. Well, I would say the first question, one of the most important question is when you're sitting down with a potential client or you just closed the sale, it's your first session. It's just ask them, what are your goals with this music?

[00:24:16] Brian: [00:24:16] Which is pretty basic, but this, again, this is the foundation for everything. The decisions you make, how big the project is going to blown up too, as far as what services they need. If they need additional musicians in there, if they need additional services, if they need any other freelancers that you can connect them to.

[00:24:33] Or if they have just completely unrealistic expectations. You're not going to know this until you asked this question, what are your goals with this music? And depending on what their answer is, this is where the improvisational practice comes in because you're going to have to improvise based on their answer.

[00:24:49] If they give you a ridiculous answer, you may have to do, say, probably not the best fit for you to be honest with you. If they give you an answer that just blows your mind, you may want to go further down that rabbit hole of, of asking deeper and deeper questions, and a lot of times until you start getting answers from people, I don't think, honestly that would you rather question she'd even come in, Chris, and you can argue with me on this if you want, but I feel like until you've asked some discovery questions like this,

[00:25:13] Chris: [00:25:13] I completely agree with you. I completely agree with you.

[00:25:16] Brian: [00:25:16] just for an example here, what are your goals with his music if they're not quite sure how to answer that?

[00:25:21] Well, you say, okay, well first of all, would you rather get signed or are you trying to release this on your own? That's a, would you rather another one might be, are you going to print this to a CD? Are you doing digital only? Like would you rather have one of these two or do you going to do both? This is where those sorts of, if this or that, or would you rather questions help them lead to the answer of what are your goals with this music?

[00:25:42] Chris: [00:25:42] So I've got a funny story about this. I asked somebody who reached out to me at one point what his goals were with the music. He sent me an album that he wanted mastered, so I asked him what his goals were and he said, well. I'm getting married in a couple of months and this record is a gift and my future wife

[00:26:00] Brian: [00:26:00] Oh,

[00:26:01] Chris: [00:26:01] I was like, Oh my gosh, you are awesome.

[00:26:04] That is so cool. What a thoughtful,

[00:26:07] Brian: [00:26:07] I mean my wife and mixed tape, like literally a mix tape with like a custom case in everything. Like actual tape.

[00:26:13] Chris: [00:26:13] I love that.

[00:26:14] Brian: [00:26:14] I didn't do the music that I just picked. Songs that I like cause I'm, I don't have musical ability.

[00:26:17] Chris: [00:26:17] See, that's less romantic and doing whole,

[00:26:21] Brian: [00:26:21] The songs are probably better.

[00:26:22] Chris: [00:26:22] they probably were. They probably were, but. So it was interesting. Now all of a sudden it was like he had a very, very large budget for this, for a mastering project,

[00:26:30] Brian: [00:26:30] very large. But

[00:26:32] Chris: [00:26:32] but jet and I was like, Oh, cool. And then so I listen to the songs he sent and the mixes were really bad.

[00:26:39] So I was like, I'll tell you what, hi, have a really good mix engineer. I'm going to set you up with him and he's going to give you a quote. He works really closely with me. And so. He gave him a quote. And the way, you know, my arrangement is with this mix engineers that, you know, if I sent him a project that we would share the profit from that project.

[00:26:59] And this project went from, I want to say it was like maybe a $700 project to like a $3,000 project because we asked a lot of good questions and we figured out, well, how do we make this a bigger win for you? The goal here is it your wife cries as much as possible while listening to this record. How can we facilitate your wife weeping?

[00:27:22] And some of that's like, well, uh, we're gonna drum replace some stuff and we're gonna mix your vocals a little bit better. And we're gonna, you know, try to bring out some of the nuance of what you're trying to do. And he was ecstatic. He was super pumped about it. And, but that's a small, kind of silly example.

[00:27:40] But we took up a project and over tripled what it was worth to us, and he was so much more happy than he ever would have been. If I had just settled on like, Oh yeah, sure, I'll master this for you. You know? So that's a good example of like, their goals are all over the map. You know, 15 2030 years ago, everyone's goal is the same.

[00:28:00] Well, I want to hit record and get signed boy record label. Now. It's not like that.

[00:28:04] Brian: [00:28:04] There's a lot of nuance in music these days.

[00:28:06] Chris: [00:28:06] There's a lot of nuance. There's a lot of different goals of like, Whoa. Really liked this girl and she's into the style of music and you know, whatever, fill in the blank. There's a million different ways that people can answer that question, and it's then when you can really start to improvise a bunch of questions to follow up and to get a better feel for them so that you can create a win win scenario and have a much better chance at one closing the sale and too getting paid the most by customizing the project to their needs.

[00:28:33] Brian: [00:28:33] Agreed. I'm moving on here. Let's move on to another good question to ask your clients or potential clients, and that is this. How are you planning to promote your music after you released this record? This again, you are leading them to an answer to something they may have not even thought about yet.

[00:28:50] Chris: [00:28:50] As in, you should promote your music after you release this record, right?

[00:28:54] Brian: [00:28:54] Yes. How are we going to, people are going to hear about this music.

[00:28:57] Chris: [00:28:57] Right. So if I were a musician and I were thinking about working with Brian, he was going to produce a record for me. And Brian asked this question. I might think to myself, Oh, I probably should promote this record,

[00:29:08] Brian: [00:29:08] There's the prevailing lie in music just like it isn't, or at least used to be before this podcast and the audio world that if you build it, they will come. If you write and record it, they will listen. That's the lie in the music industry, and that's not always the case. It's rarely the case. As a matter of fact, most music doesn't get listened to.

[00:29:23] Actually.

[00:29:24] Chris: [00:29:24] man. I've got to like, I've got to vent to you about something. I'm not going to name any names, but I was on a particular Facebook group recently. And somebody who was a paid marketer for a musician had made a post on their behalf pretending to not be a marketer. They've talked about how this person was like a breakout overnight success, and they use the phrase, it really is a true story of if you build it, they will come.

[00:29:46] And I was like.

[00:29:47] Brian: [00:29:47] Oh God.

[00:29:49] Chris: [00:29:49] They're coming at us, man. Nobody else says that phrase in our industry, they're saying we're full of crap. Maybe we are. I don't know. But it's possible. Anyways, let's move on. So, cause now I'm feeling awkward. How are you planning to promote your music after you released this record? This is an interesting question because it's a little leading, but it's also, there's some discovery.

[00:30:09] If somebody says, well, you know, I'm friends with, uh, you know, all these bloggers, or, you know. Uh, I write articles for all these magazines and I have all these connections. All the sudden this has a really big impact on the music because if they have a promotion plan or some unique promotional opportunities, then you can custom create their record to be successful in those arenas.

[00:30:33] Super, super duper useful. So yeah. Brian, let's move on to the next question.

[00:30:37] Brian: [00:30:37] This is kind of tied to the last question because depending on what their answer is, when it comes to promoting their music after they're released the record, a lot of it comes down to what is your marketing budget? This is a good followup question to

[00:30:48] Chris: [00:30:48] Great question.

[00:30:49] Brian: [00:30:49] on how they plan to answer this question or how they plan to promote the record.

[00:30:52] A lot of them have a thought about this and when, when you actually start helping them plan through this process of how they're actually going to promote their record, or at least connecting them to people that can help them with this, it comes down to what is their marketing budget. Because just like in the recording world, you're probably not going to get a very good recording without a budget.

[00:31:08] You're also not going to get a very good promotion strategy without some sort of budget as well, and people have to think about this sort of stuff. So sometimes it is. You're basically training your potential clients to think past the record being done well into the future. And here's why. That is, when it comes to a potential client talking to the parties are talking to three, four, or five different potential studios, here's what's going on.

[00:31:30] Each studio is doing the same thing, and a lot of it's what they learn on this podcast. What's your budget? How many songs. What's the sample rate and bit depth? What's the, you know, all these technical things. How many files would you label them? Right? Like asking you all these technical things. Okay, it's going to be this March.

[00:31:46] I want the deposit on this date. I need the remaining balance on this date. Let me know if you have any questions. Like that's how I did it for years. Meanwhile, Chris is over here doing the Socratic method and he is asking all these questions and clarifying and helping this client feel very comfortable as Chris is making them feel like he gives a shit.

[00:32:05] Because he's actually making them think through to the future of reaching their goals. And so Chris is the only person that's probably even remotely asked what their goals are. And so meanwhile, everyone else is just asking about what their budget is. When the deposit, all these types of questions, there's no heart to it.

[00:32:22] So the Socratic method gets to the heart of the conversation, and that builds trust. That builds credibility, that makes people want to work with you because you care. And anything else you want to add to that, Chris.

[00:32:31] Chris: [00:32:31] Yeah, I mean 100% I love everything you're saying. Even if it seems like the questions go nowhere and you don't learn anything, the fact that you've asked questions about who this artist is at their heart and what their goals are, what their hopes are, what their aspirations are, that by itself. Is a massive influencer on whether you will get the sale or not.

[00:32:53] Well, let me say that again. If the artist feels like you are trying to get to know who they are at their core and what their aspirations and dreams are, you are significantly more likely to close that sale. And someone that's just asking, shall we say, functional questions.

[00:33:09] Brian: [00:33:09] This is just a structured social skills experiment right here.

[00:33:14] Chris: [00:33:14] Totally, man.

[00:33:14] Brian: [00:33:14] It is  how to win friends and influence people. A lot of that book is about questions and getting to the root of people's desires and hopes and making it about them, and now you're taking that and putting it into a cell scenario and you're formalizing it a lot more.

[00:33:29] But at the core, it's people skills, it's social skills, it's making it about them instead of about you. And that is some of the best sales techniques you can use because. What did he make it about you or when you make it about how they can serve you by making sure they fill out this form first and making sure that they do all of these steps first and that they label fittings properly.

[00:33:46] They export them properly and they send me the deposit on this date and their ending balance on this date. All the things that we want, all this stuff to be done as audio engineers, but when you start thinking through it through their lens, through their point of view, all of those things just make it feel like another transaction.

[00:33:59] Whereas the Socratic method where you're getting to the core, the desires, the needs, the ones, everything that they have either thought about or is it the back of their mind that they haven't thought about, but it's still back there.  they haven't really thought of how to promote their music after it's released.

[00:34:13] The fact that you've brought this up shows how much you care and how much you're thinking through the entire process. This helps convince people to trust you. It completely shifts the relationship from salesperson to adviser.

[00:34:25] Chris: [00:34:25] Completely. You know, we talked about this in a previous episode, but there's a technician personality in all of us. When the technician is the one asking the questions that's going to create problems, does the technician is not interested in, in a relationship. Technicians don't want or need friends.

[00:34:40] Generally speaking, at least my technician doesn't. My entry technician, but if the artist feels like you are really trying to get to know them, I think the entrepreneur personality is probably who's asking these questions the most, but it might be the artist as well. It's probably not the manager, but the manager can help by.

[00:34:57] If you've got a list of questions that are just go to that you always ask, that can be super duper, super, super duper helpful.

[00:35:04] Brian: [00:35:04] I want to actually pause here. Go back to episode 110 the four E-Myth personality types business owners need to nurture. This is what Chris is referring to here, these personality types, and so if you're confused as to what the hell he was just talking about, go back to episode 110

[00:35:18] Chris: [00:35:18] My favorite episode. I think we've ever done episode one 10

[00:35:21] Brian: [00:35:21] kind of a trash title, but whatever.

[00:35:23] Chris: [00:35:23] yeah. The title was was you could've

[00:35:25] Brian: [00:35:25] That was a hard way. That was a hard one to come up with, man.

[00:35:27] Chris: [00:35:27] Yeah. So if you haven't listened to episode one 10 and for some reason you're just listening to this episode.

[00:35:31] Brian: [00:35:31] Yeah. It's again, one of our favorite episodes.

[00:35:32] Chris: [00:35:32] More helpful than this one. But so here's the thing. So let's keep going here. So the last question we talked about is asking the artists, what is your marketing budget?

[00:35:42] Now, here's a little caveat there, Brian. If you're trying to figure out what a client's budget is, truthfully, if they tell you their budget's $500 that doesn't mean anything.

[00:35:53] Brian: [00:35:53] I always say about 30% more than what they tell you, and sometimes more than that, I've charged as much as double, actually more than double what they told me their budget was, and they end up still coming with me.

[00:36:03] Chris: [00:36:03] Yeah, some people put the budget. Truthfully, some people are like, I'm going to put a small budget and that'll get me a good deal. It doesn't work that way ever, but here's the thing. If you say, what's your marketing budget? And they say $100 you can learn an awful lot about that client.

[00:36:19] Brian: [00:36:19] Yeah. You're like, okay, you're going to spend three grand to produce and mix this record and you're gonna spend $100 to promote it. Something's not quite on there.

[00:36:27] Chris: [00:36:27] Right? So that's a red flag. If you don't know their recording budget or their production budget or mixing budget or whatever, and they say, why have a $100 promotion budget? You can also get a pretty good fix on what their actual production budget is. If they say $3,000 is my marketing budget, you'd be like, okay, this person's a bad ass.

[00:36:47] And I'm way more interested in working with him because my work will see the light of day here. I'm going to get, you know, some residual benefit for credits on this. I need to stop drinking this stupid target brand bubbly. It is making me so freaking burpy

[00:37:01] Brian: [00:37:01] Yeah. You guys can't see this, but he literally keeps leading away from the mic. Like, what's the chocolate rain dude?

[00:37:05] Chris: [00:37:05] Joel glued room

[00:37:07] Brian: [00:37:07] Yeah.

[00:37:08] Chris: [00:37:08] Taizan day, man.

[00:37:10] Brian: [00:37:10] Yeah. He moves away from the microphone, like when he's breathing, that's what it literally looks like you're doing.

[00:37:15]

[00:37:15] Just a burp.

[00:37:16] Chris: [00:37:16] Oh man joke, dude, I love chocolate rain. That's a great song. We need to have tastes on day in the podcast.

[00:37:23] Brian: [00:37:23] So again, back to this, depending on what the budget is for their marketing budget, this is a good time to have a, would you rather  would you rather have this 10 song album that you're spending five grand to produce and mix or 10 grand to produce and mix? Or would you rather have an EAP that you actually can afford to promote?

[00:37:41] Chris: [00:37:41] Yeah. He pee every day. I mean, like, I don't even need to think about that, but this is such an interesting question that gets you into the mind and into the heart of the artist. I love what you just said there, Brian, because for you to say, okay, well you told me your budget's five grand for the album. I propose that we do an EAP instead and leave some money left over from marketing.

[00:38:01] Brian: [00:38:01] Which sounds counter intuitive because again, is it in my best interest to cut the project in half and me make less money. It seems on the surface, no. However, if that means the record will actually be listened to in my name, actually gets further out there because people are listening to the record.

[00:38:18] They're seeing my credit because I am properly getting credited because of what we talked about back on episode 105 how to get more clients via passive referrals and why you're not getting credit for your work. Go to episode one Oh five if that's a problem you're having. Anyways, it makes more sense longterm to actually take less money if it comes to that so that they can actually afford to promote the record.

[00:38:38] Because of the longterm benefits of  a, the client sees that you actually have their best will at heart, so they're going to come back to you again and again and again. B, they're going to refer more people to you because of that Go-Giver mentality and see because their music's actually been listened to.

[00:38:52] You can actually get passive referrals from that because now that people have heard your mix or your work or your masters or whatever it is, service that you offer. They're going to be referring more work to you longterm, so it's going to have a much better longterm impact to do that.

[00:39:05] Chris: [00:39:05] I love that. And one of the things you can do too as well here is you could say, well, all right, you've said you have a $5,000 budget for a 10 song record that's $500 per song, but you have no marketing budget. Here's what I recommend. Why don't you save $2,000 for your marketing budget and I will charge you $3,000 for a five song record.

[00:39:27] So what happens there is now your per song is more.

[00:39:29] Brian: [00:39:29] Well, that's generally how I do it anyways. I'll have a slightly more cost for a lower amount of songs. Yeah.

[00:39:35] Chris: [00:39:35] Yeah. You're getting paid more, but you're actually charging less and you're getting the artists more because if they say, you know, if you ask them initially, what are your hopes and dreams for this music? And they're like, man, I just really want to get 100,000 monthly listeners on Spotify. That's my goal.

[00:39:51] Well, that's not going to happen without some marketing. So you have a better chance at getting 100,000 listeners monthly on Spotify if you spend less and don't release an album, release an EAP, and spend money on marketing instead. So if I'm an artist and a producer's giving me this advice and I'm like, wow, your candor and being willing to take less money for my project, which actually gets you a little bit more per song, which means your per hour goes up, I'm probably going to go with them.

[00:40:18] This reminds me, I've told this story before, but I remember I was out to dinner. I was probably like 16 years old. I was with my grandma, grandpa, and a bunch of our family. I forget who it was. I think it was my mom went to order the salmon at this fancy restaurant, and I'll never forget this. Waiter was like, I'll be honest with you, our Sammons not the best today.

[00:40:39] You know, our shipments are a little bit behind to the salmon's, not the freshest. I'd recommend the steak tartar, which costs $10.

[00:40:47]

[00:40:47] And my mom was like, yeah, Oh, you are awesome. I'll take the steak and give you a bigger tip as a result of it. And he was just being honest and he created a win for my mom and he ended up getting value from that.

[00:41:00] He got a bigger tip. We were pumped about it, and it was just so refreshing. That's somebody that was willing to tell the truth and hopefully he wasn't just manipulating us, hopefully like maybe that was his move every single time, no matter what we ordered.

[00:41:12] Brian: [00:41:12] That would be pretty quick to sauce out. You can't do that trick too many times before somebody starts to forget.

[00:41:17] Chris: [00:41:17] Right. Yeah. But, but this comes back to the Go-Giver mentality. It appears that that waiter had a Go-Giver mentality and just wanted to make sure our meal was the best it could be.  he was open and honest, and he said something kind of embarrassing about his restaurant that he worked in. But he improved our experience and this sort of like asking what's your marketing budget thing?

[00:41:40] And then pitching a smaller project that includes a marketing budget, similar move, super interesting, and it's in the artist's best interest. They have a much better chance at their dreams at success. If they do that.

[00:41:53] Brian: [00:41:53] let's move on. We're going to do rapid fire here, and we're going to kind of just go over some of these last final questions. We're not gonna talk about these too much, but these are some give you some ideas of things to ask potential clients and honestly, even clients that you have already landed that you're about to start working with.

[00:42:06] This next question is what was your least favorite part of making your last record or your last single or whatever your last studio experience?

[00:42:14] Chris: [00:42:14] This is a discovery question, hundred percent you have no idea what they're going to say. They might be like, Oh, Trump's just, Hey, did tracking drums? Okay. Interesting. All right.

[00:42:25] Brian: [00:42:25] Yeah. You may get in some really juicy stuff here. Some good gossip, which is always fun. We love gossip here at the six figure home studio. Now,

[00:42:33]

[00:42:33] but again, you might get some really good pointers on what not to do with this client. . Occasionally you're going to get a curve ball, but most of the time this is going to be a pretty predictable answer, and then you can just move on.

[00:42:43] You never know which one of these questions is going to land to somewhere interesting. And that's why it's good to have a list that you try and have a similar list with every person so that you can have some sort of consistency with your questioning. But again, don't stick to this too rigidly.

[00:42:56] Chris: [00:42:56] Yeah. Here's the thing that I would say, I've used the Socratic method a bunch of times, and anytime I've used the Socratic method, either in a coaching call or sales call. If I'm asking like four or five questions, I'm planning on doing Socratic method for awhile. I have never, ever, ever not been surprised.

[00:43:13] Someone has always had an answer where I was like, poof. I did not see that one coming. Fascinating. It happens every day, every single day. I use the Socratic method in every single day. I'm blown away at the answers I receive and it helps me stay in touch with how ignorant and stupid I am. It's great.

[00:43:29] Brian: [00:43:29] All right, so what's this next question in the list of your Chris?

[00:43:32] Chris: [00:43:32] Which musicians do you look up to the most?

[00:43:35] Brian: [00:43:35] Chris, why is this a good question to ask?

[00:43:36] Chris: [00:43:36] Well, it's a good question to ask. Is this going to help you guide the process? It's going to give you a lot of opportunities to  pages out of the playbook of the musician that they like the most, especially if that musician is a pro, is a real pro. You can do a little bit of research on them and figure out, Oh, they like to record in this way or.

[00:43:55] You know, they preferred to record live. You know, you're trying to emulate your favorite musician with this record, but we're overdubbing every single part of the record.

[00:44:02] Brian: [00:44:02] And not just that. When it comes to some of the other questions you talked about, especially when it comes to. Like marketing or advertising their music. These are people you can look to for examples of how they're doing certain things. This is how they're promoting this record. This is their social media strategy.

[00:44:18] This is actually their Facebook ads they're running right now are their Instagram ads. They're running right now. This is how your favorite artist  is promoting this stuff, and so this is how we can look to maybe emulate this part or that part so that you're able to make the most of this on a smaller budget, and a lot of people are against advertising.

[00:44:36] Until they see some of their favorite brands or their favorite artists doing exactly what you're trying to tell them to do. Until that social proof kicks in and they see their favorite artists doing it, they may not be willing to do it. So this is a good question to find out who they look up to the most, so that you can look to them as an example to emulate in some of these other areas.

[00:44:53] Chris: [00:44:53] Yeah. I love that. I think a lot of times you have artists that it's emotional to release your music. You are literally sharing a piece of your soul. Or the judgment of all who listened to it, if my theory on music. So musicians get emotional about that. It's a little more intense than like making a duck lips face on Instagram.

[00:45:11] Are people going to think I'm pretty or not? Versus are people gonna think I'm a good person in the deep, dark parts of my soul? But I shared on my song, Oh gosh, do they think I'm going to heaven or hell? It's intense. So when you ask these questions about what are the musicians you look up in the most, you can start to pull in that professional aspects of the musicians they admire.

[00:45:30] And use that in conversations as you're, you know, talking about what that artist could do. They'd be in their own best interest.

[00:45:36] Brian: [00:45:36] So again, this is not about giving . You like a list of specific questions to ask as much as it is helping you think through the process of how to approach questioning potential customers or customers, especially related to sales. Because a lot of this is again, thinking outside of the box, which is kind of a theme we've had on our past couple episodes.

[00:45:54] thinking about it through their point of view, and it's about helping them build trust with you through questioning. Anything to add to this, I mean, what else is the benefit of Socratic method besides those three things.

[00:46:07] Chris: [00:46:07] My 2 cents here is you're trying to create wins for musicians. That's our job. If you're a mix engineer, mastering engineer, producer, an editor, fill in the blank. You're trying to create wins for people. If you are a car salesman, a plumber, a TV repair man, if there is still such a thing, doesn't matter what your profession is, you're trying to create wins.

[00:46:26] And I think one of the biggest problems in most businesses is that they assume what the winds are for their customers. And when you are in an industry like music, it's not as simple as, well, I want my TV to turn on. Again, it's, I want people to think I'm cool. I don't want people to think I'm pensive. I want people to think that I have a beautiful soul.

[00:46:48] There's just so many freaking things. I want to be a rock star and throw great parties, or I want to hang out with rock stars. That UFA, Ooh, freak knows why anyone makes music. Okay.

[00:46:58] Brian: [00:46:58] Yeah. It's different for everybody and this is honestly part of it.

[00:47:00] Chris: [00:47:00] Yeah. I don't think that there are. Many businesses on earth where the answers you're going to get are going to be more varied than are in our industry.

[00:47:09] I really don't.

[00:47:10] Brian: [00:47:10] Yeah. Because of how closely music is tied to someone's personality and goals and their soul. I guess.

[00:47:16] Chris: [00:47:16] There's an eternal component there. There's some sort of like, this is not just the stage of life that they're in, but it's who they are. Like the complete some of their existence and a lot of ways that's how most musicians see it.

[00:47:31] Brian: [00:47:31] And that's why it's so important that when you're talking about a potential project with somebody, you're not just talking about. All of the technical aspects that we talked about earlier in this episode. You're talking about stuff that is way more substantial, and the easiest way to get to that is just to ask questions instead of trying to be this, no, it, all that knows exactly what to say to them.

[00:47:48] You're just simply being humble enough to ask good questions to your clients or potential clients so that a, you can find the best way to serve them, but B, you're finding the best way to get to the core of their desires so that they're building trust in they honestly building desire to work with you.

[00:48:04] Chris: [00:48:04] So let's close this on the silver bullet from this episode. I think that it would be a very good thing if you scheduled some time to work on your business, not for it to answer one question and that question, what are the best questions I can ask potential clients. Sit down and make a list and just think about it and start taking this for a spin.

[00:48:26] And here's the thing. You need to become better at improvisational Socratic method. You need to be better at coming up with great questions on the fly so that you can know the heart of the artists that you're working with and what it is that they want to do. That you might be asking leading questions, questions where you're trying to get them to understand like that what they're doing is stupid.

[00:48:51]

[00:48:51] Yeah. Or it might be discovery questions of trying to figure out like, what is their dream record? What is the absolute most exciting record they could possibly make? You can't just like sit down and talk about sample right with them. You gotta ask them deeper questions in that. So yeah, take some time.

[00:49:07] Once this episode is done and make a list. I like to use the Apple notes app in my iPhone. Of what are some great questions that you can ask. I've got that for coaching clients. When I'm doing business coaching with somebody, I've got a list of GoTo questions that I use all the time, but those GoTo questions are not the whole thing.

[00:49:26] They get the ball rolling so that I can be improvisational.

[00:49:29] Brian: [00:49:29] There's no template to these conversations.

[00:49:31] Chris: [00:49:31] Yeah, there's starting points and I think that's the important thing here.

[00:49:39]