Three Fundamentally Different Business Beliefs That Will Make Or Break You

This is the six figure home studio podcast, episode 56

bigger studio podcast, the number one resource for running a profitable home recording studio. Now your host, Brian and Chris. Welcome back to another episode, so to

the six figure home studio podcast. I'm your host Brian Hood, and I'm here with my triggered cohost. Oh, I'm gonna. Go ahead and tell you guys today. Chris is on a rant today. He his rear end to yell at some people today about some stuff that happened to him recently. I'm grumpy. He's grumpy today. It's just not in a good mood today and so we're going to have a hell of an episode. My cohost, Chris Graham High Dune Day, buddy. Oh, I've been better. I've been better. I had a weird week, man. I hate to hear uou had a weird week, man, but the good part that comes from your weird week is that it gives us cannon fodder for our podcast. So exactly. Well, and that's the healthy thing about a podcast like this is I'm constantly trying to learn a concept, trying to grow. I'm trying to become a better businessman and I'm trying to learn more about people and learn more about myself and as I do that, that inevitably turns into lots and lots of ideas.

For podcast episodes, we had like 10 or 12 today and we settled on this one, so today our episode is going to touch on three fundamentally different beliefs or you can call them philosophies or axioms or whatever word you wanna use here, three different viewpoints that you can use to run your business and these will make or break your business. And the first one that we're going to talk about today is one that just recently affected Chris this week and it's got a story associated with it. But first of all, let's talk about what this belief system is. What is it? And then tell us the story, Chris. The idea here, there's different ways you can approach business. And ultimately the reason that I was resistant to get into business in the first place was because I thought business was something totally different than it was.

My experience with business was only jerks were into business. And this first philosophy is this sort of like kill or be killed, you know, the rule of the jungle, like businesses war, like that sort of mentality. And that's what movies kind of portrayed business and business owners and business leaders in business moguls on in movies and TV shows. They're the guys that are evil. Even in musicals, there's like newsies. Newsies is like a bad businessman and so like you have this persona that is killer be killed and it puts a bad name for business owners out there. But that's really not the way to succeed in business. I've got two stories for you guys here. Not only is it not the way to succeed in business, it's completely the opposite historically of how people have succeeded in business. So I don't know if I've told this story before.

That's fine. It's a podcast. You might be a first time listener. So one of my favorite stories in business is about John D Rockefeller. And for those of you who don't know who he was, he was the richest man in history. He started a business in Cleveland, Ohio, selling oil and kerosene and petroleum products, and at the peak of his wealth, he accounted for three percent of the GDP of the United States of America. One person, one person, three percent crazy. So at the risk of like inciting, people are triggering people that you know really into this 99 percent or one percent movement or whatever the disparity and wealth that we have now, nobody is even remotely close to three percent of the United States GDP. Not even like nowhere even close. And so it begs the question, how did John d Dot Rockefeller gets so rich? Let me tell you, when John D Rockefeller first went into business, if you want it to read at night or hanging out with your family at night or hanging out with your friends at night, he had a problem.

There's no electricity, so you either needed to use a candle. Or the most popular method of the light was a whale oil lamp. Whale oil lamps were extremely expensive and there was one serious drawback to whale oil. It blows up. So if you're like, yeah, Johnny, let's stay up late and I'm going to read you a business story. His nightlight would turn into a Mocha love cocktail sometimes. I don't know if I pronounced that right, but it's essentially a glass thing that explodes and there's liquid inside of it and everything in the room catches on fire and most people call those molotov cocktail molotov cocktail. Yeah, you got that from pub g didn't you?

So a Molotov cocktail, Aka a whale oil light, which is how you would put your kids to bed at night. Like, Oh, I'm going to light up the whale oil light and try not to, you know, put a liquid on everyone and everything in the house that Burns. So stop, drop and roll doesn't work with a Molotov cocktail. This is gross. So John D Rockefeller hooked up with a chemist. They figured out how to isolate kerosene from crude oil and no one had ever done it before. And you could use kerosene instead of whale oil and a lamp and it didn't blow up, was nowhere near as explosive as well oil. So John d Dot Rockefeller did something pretty surprising. So let's say you're in John D Rockefeller, his position, if you believe in kill or be killed, you're going to probably charge what, like 90 percent of the cost of whale oil.

Now what John did, because it's better, right? It's better than oil. So why not just under kind of a little bit, a little bit, get maximum profit. He believed in what we teach on this podcast, which is add value, go above and beyond under promise, over deliver. He charged 10 percent of the cost of oil and it radically changed the world. People could stay up late, they could read, they could self-educate, they could spend time with their friends and family and not blow anybody up in the process. Pretty good product, right? So this kill or be killed mentality in business. Totally the opposite of what John D Rockefeller did. And first and foremost, let me just say John D Rockefeller wasn't perfect, but his business philosophy was rooted in ad value. Nothing kill or be killed.

So this should transfer into a story that you recently experienced, a kill or be killed in action in your own life. I know you want to rant about that, Chris, go ahead and tell us about what it looks like if you try to employee kill or be killed in her own business. And let me step back real quick and just say we're going to talk about two more other than just killer be killed, but this killer be killed is one that is extremely dangerous if you believe this, and what we're trying to do is give you a picture of how kill or be killed business philosophy, how that looks in practice, and what the results of that will be so that you can avoid it. This is one of those things that will absolutely break your business if you are the type of person that is willing to do anything to win a battle. Anything to make money, do anything in burn, any bridge in order to quote unquote win.

Yes. So here's the thing, and if you're the guy that I'm getting ready to talk about, don't worry, I'm not going to use your name, I'm not going to use any specifics. No one's going to know who you are, not my style. So here's what happened. So I had a partnership with a guy and our agreement had a time period associated with it. That agreement was up. So we sat down and we negotiated for about two hours or so on two separate occasions, so like an hour and then another hour ish, somewhere in there, maybe a little bit less than that.

Which by the way, if you need a little help on negotiation, go back to episode number 30 of our podcast. We talk about 11 highly effective negotiation tactics any audio professional can use. So continue on your story, Chris.

So we sat down, we negotiated and again to go back to that episode and my philosophy of negotiating is figure out how to get the other person, uh, when, and if you can do that, you can probably figure out how to get yourself a win too. So I struggled negotiating with this guy because I couldn't really figure out what he wanted. I couldn't figure out what a win was for him and usually when you can't figure out what a win is for the other team, you end up losing. So we eventually we talked it out, we came to a point where we agreed on specifics on a deal moving forward and we were going to sign a deal here just a couple days later, maybe even the next day. My big thing with him was predictability, you know, we need to figure out what the specifics are and then it needs to look that way so that I know what my life looks like for the next year or so.

So we came to the terms and as a result of coming to the terms, I brought in another party. I brought in another partner of mine and introduced the two of them and you know, it looked like we're going to do like a big three way partnership type thing. And about 24 hours later he texted me and without having the decency of saying, Hey, you know, I messed up, he essentially said the deal is off. Here's what's happening. And we had already come to terms on this. And I called him on it and his position, which I just thought was the most ridiculous thing in the world was well there wasn't a negotiation. We were just talking about different possibilities of things we could do, which was nuts because that was not the case. We came to a conclusion. We came to a specific aside said, yeah, that'll work.

We can move forward with that. I did. It was like a handshake agreement. Yeah, it was a handshake agreement. Twenty four hours later over a text, no less, which is if you need to screw somebody, guys have the courage to do it to their face or at least on the phone, not over text. So he texted, you know, essentially the deal was off. I called him and was like, dude, what the heck? Like we agreed on this. You said, no, we didn't. You know, it was just, we were talking about post booties and I called him on this and the big issue here was you broke your word. This is what you said we would do. You changed your mind on this. And his response was, well, did we have a contract? Which was hilarious because he just admitted that we did come to terms on this.

We did negotiate, we did come to a conclusion and he was trying to pull a contract card on you saying, oh, was it in writing so I don't have to hold my end of the deal? Right? So I called him on this and said, dude, you need to grow up. You need to realize that business is based on trust. If you want more customers, you need people to trust you. Your reputation is the most important thing that you have, and if you don't have it, no one will hire you ever again. No one will do a deal with you ever again, and this killer be killed. This mentality of I want to win today and who cares what bridges I have to burn? I'm going for when people think that that's business, they think that it's any way you can steal or cheat or sneak anything you can get in.

That's your measure as a businessman, totally the opposite, and here's the thing. He did win that battle. He won the battle because in his mind he just didn't want to do what they agreed on and so he backed out of it and he wins, right? The problem is he loses the war. Yeah, his reputation is damaged. Now. He's not getting any more money from Chris. There's no more three way partnership there in the long run. This guy has lost out on so much potential income and this brings up a point and that point is, and this is a very important point and part of this podcast that we wanted to discuss, and that is every single action you take in your business or sometimes inaction you take taken your business will affect in one way or another, it will affect your total lifetime potential earnings.

This is a number that you really. There's no good way of calculating this number, but you can be rest assured that anything you do will affect that number either positively or negatively, and I can guarantee you this thing, it did hurt Chris's lifetime potential earnings, maybe a slight amount, but it completely wrecked a massive amount of this other guy's lifetime potential earnings because of his short sidedness. Yeah, and so the kind of the quotable take home piece there. I'm going to drop the F word. I know I've been cussing a lot. I try not to icos constantly in real life. If you had heard the preinterview like before we started recording this today, Chris was fired up, furious about this whole situation, just dropping some colorful language. Well, and side note, I think cussing's great. I don't think cussing at people is good to call someone the f word or whatever is awful, but this quote, I think it needs the f word to have the impact and here it is.

So every time you fuck someone, your potential lifetime income shrinks. That's. Yeah, it goes back on what I just said basically, and I think that's actually where that conversation stemmed from is when you brought that quote up. Yeah, don't fuck people. It's like when you're playing pool and that pool ball, you hit it to break, you know, break the balls and it goes in. It hits the balls and those balls go in every different direction and who knows what direction they're going to end up. Who knows if I'm ever going to go into the different holes or whatever they're called on the pool table, the pockets, but there is an a level of chaos that you cannot predict when you fuck someone. That's such a good illustration too. Like I can think of my mind anytime that you have done some misdeed to somebody and asked them over, I'm done with the f bombs today and you asked them over.

Then I hit my quota. That explosion happens in your area, in your network. People are out there like bad mouthing you behind your back because you are the bad guy in the situation and that is going to completely wreck your potential lifetime earnings because you never know how many clients you could be potentially missing out on and then how many other clients that those clients would have led to. This could be a complete detriment to your business. You may completely lose your business if you go to the wrong person. Yeah, totally true. So this is a fascinating idea in business because I love what you're saying here. When something good happens, when you get a reputation boost, when someone sees that you have integrity, opportunities happen, and when you screw somebody, when you felt somebody you lose those opportunities that you could have had, the opportunities that you would have had if you had a good reputation, would have led to other opportunities, which if you kept a good reputation, would have led to other opportunities.

Yeah, it's a networking effect. It's just one leads to another which leads to three more, which leads to 10 more slides to 20 more, which leads to 50 more and so on and so on until that snowball of word of mouth advertisement or snowball of clients get so big that you never have to worry about a thing again. Chris Graham has so many clients that he could stop advertising today and he would still be fine because he's built up such a great name for himself and this goes across the board because Chris has a great reputation. Chris, your reputation is pretty good, isn't it? Right. Well thanks Brian. I think it is. Yeah. That was a rhetorical question. Well, let me get a piece of that. So I love what you just said and it kind of gave me an idea here when you bought somebody.

Sorry, this just feels so weird to say fuck. It feels so. When you funk somebody fucked somebody. I don't like doing it in a microphone. That feels weird because it can be taken out of context, but when you see somebody, there you go. You would destroy an opportunity tree. You would have had an opportunity as a result of keeping her integrity and then you would have had probably two more opportunities as a result of that opportunity and then probably for more opportunities. There's all those opportunities and so on and so forth, and when you do one thing that destroys your reputation, there's an entire tree of opportunities that now is never going to grow. You've just limited that. So when I say, when you ask somebody, your potential lifetime income shrinks, it's because you just cut off a branch on your opportunity tree and that's why I really want you guys.

I hope you agree with me. I want you guys to take this home, that this kill or be killed, this burn bridges. It's all about winning today. Business mentality. Yes, we see it in movies, but those are fake. If you look at business history, yes, there are occasions when people have screwed other people, but by and large, the people who are successful to be massive degree are the ones who provided the most value. Who did right by the most number of people who served the most number of people, and man, I believe that to my core and I am so grateful for all the people who convinced me over the years that that movie business is not real business. You know guys like Derek Sivers in his book, anything you want guys like Bob Berg and the go giver. His book is awesome. How to win friends and influence people, which sounds like that's not what that book is about, but it is what that book is about is about being really nice.

It's about treating people the way you want to be treated. And Man, I love that. So I've ranted so we shouldn't move on. Yeah, this is one philosophy. One way in which you can look at business. This is one viewpoint you can have on business and this is a way you can run your business if this is what you want. This is just a very short sided way, so that's the first way to kill or be killed. The second way, the second view point in the rest of these are probably not going to go as long as this. This is just the first one is a hot button issue for Chris Right now. He wanted to rant today, but the second way to view your business or the second viewpoint or philosophy on business is what Chris. So the second idea is the ends justify the means.

We see this a lot in politics in America. We see this a lot in history. We see this all over the place and here's the problem with the ends. Justify the means not just politically or whatever it happens to be business wise. The problem is that there are assumptions involved with the ends. Justify the means. The first assumption is that the means are necessary. So you brought up a story previously. Have you know an example. What was that? Yeah. So the example that we've talked about before the episode was maybe killing one person in order to save millions of innocent lives. So this is like a common philosophy exercise here. Would you kill one guy to save a million lives, and there's a couple assumptions in here. One, the only way to save those lives is by killing this one guy and two, if you kill the guy, you're guaranteed to save the lives of everyone else.

The problem with this is that business life, the real world doesn't work with certainty, so if you kill the guy, it might've turned out that it was completely unnecessary to kill him or it might turn out that you killed him and it didn't work. Yeah, he was just replaced by the next man up. Yeah, and then it didn't save anyone's lives. And in a situation like that, you are only left with your means, and if your means are evil, congratulations. Now you're evil and your reputation is shot and your legacy is that you did something really awful and this is a trap that a lot of people can fall into. They end up doing things they should not be doing because they think at the end of the day it's going to help my business. It'll be worth it. It'll be worth it and it's never worth it because going back to what we talked about earlier, your reputation is everything and if you're willing to do sketchy things or you're willing to screw someone over or you're willing to burn a bridge just because you think the ends justify the means.

It's gonna be a short run for you buddy. I'm sorry, but that's not the way to do things in business in today's age. Yeah, and this ultimately comes down to this previous idea we talked about. If you're playing pool billiards, if you're not from the United States with pool, you shoot a ball into a triangle of other balls and those balls go shooting in every which way. There's a degree of chaos when you take an a lie or when you compromise your integrity and say something foolish like the ends, justify the means. There is so much chaos that will happen after that decision that you cannot possibly predict the ends. That unexpected things will happen after that. So another good example, it killed the guy. You save a million lives, but then as a result of saving those a million lives, a billion people die. Actually, that's a really good point.

Like you have no idea what those 10 million people are going to do. Yeah. You just don't know what's going to happen. So your best bet is integrity. It's just do the right thing and avoid the ridiculous chaos of cause and effect when you mess with ends that you don't understand and means that you don't understand how those two interplay. So I think we see this a lot with young guys and this is why my experience with the sky was so frustrating was he's, I think he's in his late twenties or early thirties. He was acting like he was 15. This is a very common mentality for 15 year olds have leg, oh, whatever. I'll just going to burn the bridge. Screwed your moon. Oh, and like 15 year olds continually, they continually screw themselves because they get in this chaos and they're like, oh, I don't remember the law.

Told my mom last night. So a new law, the no. Oh crap. That contradicted by previous lie like it just gets way too chaotic. You can't keep it all straight. I'm not smart enough to juggle lies by not juggling lies. My Iq goes up so true. I only have to worry about the truth. It's great and people liked me more. So now let's move into the third philosophy or the third fundamentally different business belief that can make or break you. Which one is the third one? Chris? The third idea here, the third philosophy of business is add value and this is all ultimately the underlying philosophy that we have preached for the last 50 odd episodes here, but it's this idea that if you under promise and over deliver, if you go above and beyond with everybody always that will come back in a different kind of chaos that will come back in a good chaos and I don't know where these customers are coming from.

How did they hear about me? Oh, well yeah. Bob told Joe, who told Steve, who told his aunt may, who told her nephew, John, that Chris has good at mastering, so you should hire him. Who knows how these things happen? Yeah. When you have an unbroken undamaged chain of relationships to where every single one of those links in the chain are strong, that's the recipe for success. That is the key to success in this world today, especially in audio where it's a relationship business and every single thing you do, whether you're trying to do kill or be killed or ends, justify the means, those do nothing but weaken the links in the chain or weakened the branches on the tree or uproot trees, and if you could just continually add value in every step of the way, that is how you succeed in this business.

It's not the short term wins. It's the longterm place. It's the tenure to 20 or the 30 year outlook. See, we have a podcast so you can't see that. I'm like kicking the air right now because I'm so jacked about what Brian is saying. My only request is that I made a noise earlier. Make sure you know, edit that out because that was. That was important for me to underscore how much I agree with what you just said. That reminds me. I've been talking with Graham Cochrane a lot lately. He was our guest, by the way, on episode number 46 of a podcast. Graham Cochran teaches us how one free source of marketing can change your business forever. Graham has this phrase that he's used a lot with me recently where he talks about delighting your customers, that when you do something you know, you make a deal with them and then you go above and beyond what the deal was and you deliver more than what you promised that that delights customers and what happens when you delight a customer.

Yes, yes. Go ahead. Like listener, as you guys are listening, what happens to a delighted customer? Oh, they're stoked. They tell their friends. They write reviews, they post about it in forums. They talk about it online. When you delight them, they overflow with goodwill and that goodwill comes back to you tenfold. Yeah, and I think if you go back to episode way back in the day, episode number 11 of the six figure on the studio podcast, we talk about how to earn more from your studio without raising your rates. In that episode, we talk about the value of leaving some money on the table of charging $5 for that $10 hamburger to where it's a remarkable service you're giving for the price you're charging, and again, just kind of give you a recap on that episode. We give the illustration. If I spend $5 on a hamburger that tastes like a $5 hamburger, I'll go pretty good hamburger, but if I spend $5 on a hamburger that tastes like a $10 or $20 hamburger, if that even exists, that's the situation where my damn that was twice

as good as it should've been and I only paid $5 and so I'm going to tell them my friends about that Burger joint down the road that no one's heard about. That is that is the marketing budget you're spending is leaving a little bit of money on the table or even sometimes a lot of money on the table for the services you're offering by overdelivering for what they're paying for and that will reap dividends in the long run. You'll make so much more money in the long run. If you can employ that tactic,

two thoughts on that one. Episode 11 was a good episode. Yes, it was to. There's a restaurant by my house called Northstar cafe. That's the most delightful place on earth and I think I need to go there for dinner to buy their $14 hamburger. I am so hungry from what you just said. So yeah, there's that.

I had, I don't know how much it was. 10 Dollars Burger last night at Jack Brown's Burger and beer garden here in Nashville. Actually in the Gulch. There's to shout outs for different burger joints, whether you're in Columbus or Nashville. So just to kind of wrap this episode up, we gave you three different ways that you can look at running your business. Three different philosophies or different viewpoints on how you can run your business or different beliefs, however you want to word it, and each one of them is different. And I want to say that the first one should be for most people to listen to this podcast should be a no brainer. You don't do killer be killed in this business. You just don't do it. The second one, the ends justify the means. That's a trap that a lot of people could fall into, so hopefully us just giving a little bit of advice around that sort of philosophy will keep you from falling into that trap, but above and beyond anything else, adding value, in my opinion, is going to pay dividends in a way that no other way of running a business can do. Chris, did you have something you wanted to read to us from a book?

Yeah, so I just finished reading, rereading Derek Sivers, anything you want. Derek sivers founded CD baby and I think 1998. He is incredible. He is just one of my favorite business guys

ever. Yeah, he's like a bucket list podcast guests on here for us if we could ever get them.

He's absolutely awesome and sort of his story. For those of you who don't remember cd baby and don't remember cds. Maybe back in the day, if you had a CD and you wanted to sell it to your fans, if you had music, your only option was to get a label, the sign you and then the label to Hook up with a distribution company to get your cd in the stores. There was no pay pal. There is no buy button on the Internet. Derek sivers invented a website where you would send a bunch of your cds to him and he would sell the cd for you and if someone bought it, he would ship it for you. This business exploded. It was the hottest thing ever in the early two thousands and he ended up selling the business for $22,000,000 to disc makers and he wrote this book about it.

It's a big old payday. Yeah, big old payday and Derek is a master of customer service. He radiates this add value mentality and he's talking in this book, anything you want about how he goes above and beyond to delight his customers and he's talking about at the end of an order. I'm just going to start reading here. It says at the end of each order form, there was a box that would ask any special requests. One time someone said, I'd love some cinnamon gum, and it's just, you know, a musician being goofy or customer being goofy. He says, since one of the guys in the warehouse was going to the store anyway, he picked up some cinnamon gum and included it in the package. Another time someone said, if you could include a small rubber squid, I would appreciate it if this is. If this is unobtainable, a real squid would do just by chance a customer from Korea at us, a packaged filet of squid, so the shipping guys included it in the box with a customer cds and obviously this is.

You have to imagine yourself. It's like 1999 or 2000 or something like that. You order some cds, you're a goofball. You make a joke about squid in the anything else column. You get your cds in the mail and there is a frozen filet of squid in there. Talk about delight. I would laugh so hard. This guy, the squid guy, is now an evangelist for life for cd baby. There's like a whole video online of his reaction. It's incredible. So I'm not saying that you need to include a squid. When someone you know ask you to ship them something or that you know you hand these out for free when someone records with you, but the idea here, the mentality of delighting your customers and adding value is huge. So I know some of you are probably thinking, well that's just so stupid, but you need to understand this guy who got the squid told how many thousands of people about his experience with cd baby.

When people heard this ridiculous story, they said, wow, that is over the top. I can trust them when someone says I can trust them, they're willing to do business with them. It's humongous. So this sort of add value thing, this philosophy of delighting your customers is huge and it goes back to what we initially talked about, this killer be killed versus the. It's justify the means. If your mentality is to screw people to get a quick win, one that's going to create chaos in your life that you will not be able to predict or deal with, and two, if you create this anti chaos, this goodwill, this Karma, and you send that out into the marketplace, you cannot possibly anticipate the ways that we'll come back to you. Ten, 15, 20, a hundred fold. Yeah. There's a lot of people I know who are in a tough spot in their life and business and a lot of bad things are happening to them and they complain because they're like, why does all this bad stuff happened to me?

But that's just the ricochets of all the negative shit they've sent out and all the people they've screwed over and all the bad things they've put out into the world and they haven't planted any seeds of goodness. They haven't planted any seeds of overdelivering and under promising. And I think another book that does a really great job of talking about this thing that you just talked about is a book called delivering happiness. It's the story of Zappos and all the crazy stuff they've done as far as their customer service department. It's one of the best customer service books I think I've ever read and to me it's like a must read if you have a studio because it'll give you some great ideas

on how to overdeliver. Funny story, don't make this mistake that I did. I bought that book to read it, but there's apparently a comic book version of it and I bought the comic book version instead so it's a lot shorter. It was great, but I wish I bought the full version and read that too. So this is a great book for an audio book version because there's a lot of stories in it. It's mainly story based and those are the kinds of books I love to do audiobooks for. So get the audiobook for that one. If you are an audio book listener, which you probably are if you listen to this podcast, so the moral of this episode just to finally put a nail in the coffin here and wrap this thing up. Don't be a piece of shit.

That is it for this episode of the six figure homes studio podcast. I want to point something out that I think is kind of funny. We recently had our two best weeks of all time on the podcast. We're still growing every single month. We're getting bigger and bigger, which is cool to see. I love progress, but I want to. I want to call you people out in by you people. I just mean you. Listeners are two most popular episodes that we've ever put out. We're back to back and they were episode 53 and episode 54, episode 53 was the six figure home studios guide to gear and I'm kind of ashamed for that because our entire platform is built on the fact that we don't talk about gear. We don't believe that gear is the answer and yet you are. Most popular episodes so far is about gear.

Episode 54 is about what drug dealers can teach recording studios. So if our most popular episodes or any indication of our listeners, we have a bunch of gear, slept drug dealers listening to us. So, uh, I don't know what else to say about that. Next week we're going to be talking about debt. We're going to tackle the debt thing head on and we have a lot of our listeners who are in debt and there's a massive trap that a lot of studios can fall into and that is the trap of debt. So if you're in debt, what can you do to get out of it? What can you do to avoid debt? And what are some tools that will help you both avoid debt altogether and help you get out of debt once you are in debt. So if you feel like you can barely keep your head above water, if you feel like you're drowning in debt, if you feel like there's no possible way you could claw your way out. Next week episode is for you, and even if you're not in debt right now, I still think it's good to hear because it's going to give you a perspective that you may not have heard yet. So that will be coming out next week, Tuesday, 6:00 AM same time as always. Until next time, thanks for listening and happy hustling.